But yes, Parks was the reason the Frontenacs were downright pathetic last season. I'm surprised Kitchener is winning, considering what a liability he is in nets.
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Get A Clue |
Mavric Parks |
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After recording the shutout tonight, Parks is now 5-0-1 on the season, and sports a very impressive 2.48 GAA and .926 save percentage. He's been splitting
the games with Maxwell, and their team is first place in the division, and only has one regulation loss this year.
But yes, Parks was the reason the Frontenacs were downright pathetic last season. I'm surprised Kitchener is winning, considering what a liability he is in nets.
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MisterDB |
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On a similar note, Mignardi has 21 points, 12 G and 9 A for Owen Sound.
Considering both these players are playing in the west division who almost everyone agrees is a better tougher division then the east division is a pretty good accomplishment so far.
It's hockey time - Keep your head up .
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tylerking |
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Must.... resist... chiming.... in....
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Asif |
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Environment? hmmmm
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Jim |
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Parks was definately a Fronts Talk Favourite. Nice to see him doing well and being recognized for his efforts.
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chuckie2 |
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As of this am Parks has a .935 sv %, Anthony Peters a .914 sv% and Beskorowany a .906 sv%. I'm not intending to knock Besko, who by and large has played
quite well, but I am intending to point out that this trade for him was supposed to be an upgrade, however the numbers show that goaltending was the
last area we needed upgrading, as, I believe several posters on here stated. Oh and incidentally, Bobby Mignardi is now
up to 14 goals. I forget...wasn't goalscoring the main area where we supposed to be (and are!) lacking.
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Get A Clue |
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Parks was first star last night in Kitchener's 4-1 win, stopping 41 of 42 shots. He's now 6-0-1 with a 2.27 GAA (second in the OHL), and a .935 save
percentage.
Just for reference before a Frontenac management defender says something inane like "Parks plays behind a better defense in Kitchener", I'd like to point out that Parks is actually facing slightly more shots per game. Besko has faced 554 shots in 16 games, for an average of 34.6 shots per game. Parks has faced 246 shots in 7 games, for an average of 35.1 shots per game. As with chuckie's post I want it to be clear that this isn't an attack on Beskorowany, who has been the Frontenacs' lone bright light on many occasions this year, but rather as an illustration that all this nonsense about how Parks was a big reason for our bad record last year is, well, ridiculous. Parks played just as well last year as he is this season. The difference is now he's playing on a team that doesn't suck. Meanwhile, Beskorowany (who is, in fact, a very good goalie) is facing the same problems that Parks faced last year, in that his stats are being affected by a largely inconsistent team in front of him. |
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fossil30 |
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Besko has faced 554 shots in 16 games, for an average of 34.6 shots per game. Parks has faced 246 shots in 7 gamesBINGO!!!!!! Parks has played well and has good stats for sure, but if he's so dominant, why has he only played 7 games???? Would he have those numbers playing 16 of 19 games???He didn't in the past?? and don't get me wrong, cause i like Parks, but the fact is, the Fronts still did get an upgrade in net. |
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Get A Clue |
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Uh? Because Kitchener already had a highly touted Brandon Maxwell? The fact that Parks is even playing at all is testament to how well he's playing.
Maxwell was penciled in to get 50+ starts at the beginning of the year, but now they're pretty much splitting the games 50/50.
And I think you're missing the point entirely. The point is, Parks was criticized by management and some "fans" as the reason we struggled last year, citing that he gave up too many bad goals and wasn't a good enough goalie. His stats in Kitchener prove otherwise. If he was as bad as management and some "fans" suggest he is, then he'd also be struggling in Kitchener and be the culprit for Kitchener losing games they should have won. Instead, he's splitting the games with the highly touted Maxwell and their team has one regulation loss all year.
Last Edited By: Get A Clue
11/02/09 02:07.
Edited 1 times.
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tylerking |
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Nonono, clearly the only measure of a goalie's skill is games played.
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Jim |
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Parks success is in the Western Conference, even harder to accomplish. The East is weak this year, everyone will acknowledge that.
I like Besk and agree he has stood on his head many nights but explain to me why these boys can go to other teams and have career years? Mignardi, Peters etc. Is it that teams show confidence in them or it is just a better fit? The same is true for Odam and Fine coming here. They have excelled. Kids get drafted and have to report to that team even if it is not a good fit. If they are not a good fit then they hope they are lucky enough to get traded to a team where they will be. John Cullen has not had a chance this year and I doubt he will. They sat Sarault again vs. the Soo...is he next? |
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Gman0959 |
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Prior to this season Parks and John Cullen were sub .900 SV% goalies. Every GM knows you cannot win with a starting goalkeeper below .900. Just ask the Leafs.
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goon |
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Hey Fossil can you spell Burn Out, the way the Fronts are playing Besk................ny he won't be able to stand up come February. Cullen is being
treated the same way Mike Smith was treated. The Fronts will be fighting it out for the last playoff spot.
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tylerking |
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Gman0959 wrote: Seriously? For now, I'll set aside the preposterous idea that the difference between an .899 and .900 goalie is significant. Parks was .898 last year, and Besko was .902. For fairness sake, I'll average both of their numbers of shots against; that's 1,613. Besko's save percentage was 0.004 better than Parks. On that average number of shots faced between them, Besko would save 1,454. Parks would save 1,448. So 6 extra saves over the course of a *year* makes for a massive discrepancy? |
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Gman0959 |
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Look at there rookie numbers. One merited a 2nd round draft pick and the other wasn't drafted. One was going to a pro camp. The conclusion all across the
league was the Fronts upgraded. I guess you know more than the scouts and everyone else.
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chuckie2 |
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Gman, so where has this supposed upgrade got us, if indeed it was an upgrade? We are under .500 in the world's weakest division, after Gilmav went out and
acquired a bunch of veterans to make sure we made the playoffs, so the "difference" Besko has made is negligible.
In my opinion, we'd have been better off with Mignardi's 14 goals than we are with Besko in nets. You sure have a short memory about the game star awards that Parks won last season, when singlehandedly he kept us in more games than we had a right to be in, especially early in the season when we were brutal. The kid got a raw deal, especially from Gilmour, who essentially cut his legs from under him with confidence-sapping comments about our goaltending, when in fact it was the rest of the team that stunk- coaching included. |
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Get A Clue |
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Gman0959 wrote: Yeah, let's completely ignore things like playing behind a horrible club. I mean, a goalie on a first place club and a goalie on a last place club should definitely have identical save percentages, if one is as good as the other, right? There's no possible way that the team they play for can affect their personal stats, right? For instance, a goalie on a club that was 20 games under .500 and had one of the worst defensive records in the league should easily pull off a sub 3.00 GAA and a .900 save percentage or higher, otherwise he sucks.
Here's a guy's stats from his rookie year, who went on to become the 1st overall pick in the NHL draft and this past season backstopped his team to the Stanley Cup. Some kid by the name of Fleury. His save percentage behind a weak Cape Breton team in his rookie year was .886. By your standards, the guy will never pan out as a starting junior goalie, let alone a starter in the NHL. Then there's some kid named Roberto Luongo (I think he's decent in the NHL, but according to your theory about save percentages and what a sub .900 means for a goalie, I guess he's not) who registered an .878 save percentage in his rookie year, and followed it up two seasons later with a .899 in his third year (after already being drafted). I mean, what the hell was the NHL thinking drafting the guy? TWICE he got a save percentage below .900! He will never be anything more than a backup in junior! In any case, ridiculous assumptions about the correlation between a goalie on a BAD team's save percentage and his actual ability aside, Parks is finally playing for a good team and what's his GAA and Save pct? Sub 3.00 GAA and well above this magical .900 save percentage. So unlike Fleury and Luongo, Parks doesn't suck.
And about this whole "one was drafted, one wasn't, so the one not drafted is crap" nonsense, let me point out the following: Michael Ouzas Paulo Colaiacovo Bujar Amidovski What do they have in common? Same thing as Parks, they were all undrafted by NHL clubs. They must suck, right? After all, being an NHL draft pick is a sure guaranteed way to tell if a goalie will actually do something at the OHL level, right? Guess not, since all three won OHL Goalie of the Year. Now, that's not my way of suggesting that Parks will win Goalie of the Year, or anything of the sort. Just an illustration to point out how utterly ridiculous your point about bringing up whether a player is an NHL draft pick or not determines whether he's capable of being a good junior goalie. I'd also like to point out that you people defending the club keep on talking about Besko being an upgrade on Parks, despite the fact that the point about Parks has ZERO to do with him being as good as Besko. Rather, the point I'm making is to refute this ridiculous notion that Parks was the biggest reason the Fronts sucked last year, and that a team with Mavric Parks as its goalie will not succeed. Kitchener is proving that both those are, in fact, false assumptions. I bolded this last point because I'm tired of people tossing out the "But Besko's an upgrade!" remark, when it has very little to do with what has been stated in the thread. |
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tylerking |
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Gman0959 wrote:Your standard on statistical relevance isn't the reliability of the stat; it's the propensity of the stat to reinforce your point. That's profoundly irrational. You're right - Besko is a second round pick. Rick DiPietro was a first overall pick. What's your point? Either way I think GAC did the best possible job of deconstructing that point... What's next, we'll start judging goaltenders on height alone? Only tall ones can succeed, right? And let's find a way to say that a goalie can only succeed with a really long last name. Cullen and Parks are too easy to pronounce, so opposing forwards have more confidence in the offensive zone. I think one of those lazy drunken scouts told me that. |
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fossil30 |
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And I think you're missing the point entirely. The point is, Parks was criticized by management and some "fans" as the reason we struggled last year, citing that he gave up too many bad goals and wasn't a good enough goalie. His stats in Kitchener prove otherwise. If he was as bad as management and some "fans" suggest he is, then he'd also be struggling in Kitchener and be the culprit for Kitchener losing games they should have won. Instead, he's splitting the games with the highly touted Maxwell and their team has one regulation loss all year.That is NOT the case at all. Maybe its the fact that he was asked to play 50 plus games and he isn't capable of it. Everyone has seen Mavric win a game completely on his own, so he obviously has the skill, the concerns and issues with him are that he isn't consistent enough on a game in and game out basis. So with a lightened work load he is playing more consistent, but would he be that consistent if he played as a regular number 1 goalie in the league. Those are questions we won't know until he becomes a starter in this league again. Nonono, clearly the only measure of a goalie's skill is games played.No, but if he's so good then why isn't he playing more. I don't see many top goalies that take a seat on the bench for more than half the teams games do you???? Hey Fossil can you spell Burn Out, the way the Fronts are playing BeskWhat's your point?? you're saying that to me like i have any control over that what-so-ever. Just cause i sit here and say that Besko has easily been the Fronts best player and that he was and still is an upgrade, doesn't mean that i feel that John Cullen isn't good enough to play. They sat Sarault again vs. the Soo...is he next?ok then, who would you like to sit so that Charlie can play??? I hope you don't say any of the rookies, because everyone one of them, including Broek has out played Charlie this season. Actually i'd say Froats, Durocher and Quine have out-played most of the players on the team. Are you really going to sit proven 30 plus goal scorers in Moon and Werek for Charlie??? its one thing to complain about Moon and Werek and their weaknesses but its an entirely different beast to sit one of your most proven offensive weapons for a guy with two career OHL goals. So who sits for Sarault??? Harnden, Fine, Lebar, Farrell??? I doubt it Not to mention Charlie has looked lost in his own end of the rink and is a forward worst -7 on the team, despite not even playing every game. So what warrents him playing more?? The thought that because other guys have left and played well?? Don't get me wrong, i don't disagree that we need to add a little bit more confidence to the repatoire, but there are guys on this team deserving of more ice time then Charlie. I'm not saying he should be sat forever, but he is definitly in the mix of guys that need to fight a whole lot harder than they are to keep their ice time. What has Charlie done when he has played that shows he's fighting to stay in the lineup???? Froats and Durocher do stuff, every game that show why they want to stay in the lineup |
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Gman0959 |
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tylerking wrote:What a bunch of gobble-de-!*%#. He's an upgrade over Mavric Parks......Period! Any credible person who follows the league says so. Question.....Since you guys are smarter than the me, the scouts, mav and Gilmour.....Tell me, if the Assistant Coaches are incapable of developing players and need to be fired then why does the Goalie Coach get a pass? You complain the Fronts can't develop a goaltender. |
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Get A Clue |
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Gman0959 wrote:I notice you completely ignored the points I made in my post. You insisted that Parks wasn't a quality goalie because a]he wasn't drafted (which I proved a wrong assumption based on three undrafted goalies who went on to win OHL Goalie of the Year) and b]because he couldn't maintain a .900+ save percentage on a bad team (which I proved wrong again with two NHL stars who put up bad save percentages on bad teams in junior). So, explain then why your two theories (not drafted and .900 save percentage on a bad team) don't account for the examples I gave you. To answer your question, the lack of development of goalies has less to do with the goalie coach and more to do with the fact Mavety (or Gilmour, depending who is actually the GM) trades away any youngster before they're given a chance, and acquires someone else's 19-year old. So why would the goalie coach be blamed when he's not the one in charge of constantly bringing in another team's 19 year old? fossil30 wrote: First of all, he wouldn't have had to play 50+ games. Cullen's a more than capable backup goalie, and the two of them, even if they didn't split duties 50/50, could have gone with about 40 games for Parks, 28 games for Cullen. Or even 45 games Parks, 23 games for Cullen. Teams don't need to play their starters 90% of the games when they have a solid backup, especially if the ONLY thing holding a goalie back from putting up impressive numbers is fatigue. In the NHL they do, because the #1's salary is usually $5+ million and they want to make sure they're making the most of their investment, especially when they have a league minimum wage backup. In the OHL, neither goalie is making outrageous sums of money, so there's not the same need to play one almost all the games. Look at the tandem in Kitchener with Parks and Maxwell. It certainly hasn't hurt them to go with a two-goalie system, rather than playing one all the games. Second, we've yet to see Mavric Parks play behind a good team in Kingston. Both years he played here, the team was AWFUL. Like my examples with Luongo and Fleury, you can't expect good numbers from even the best goalies in junior if you put a crappy club in front of them. Goalies have bad games, even the great ones. Again look at Luongo in Game 6 against Chicago last year, look at Fleury in Game 5 against Detroit. Are you suggesting that Luongo and Fleury aren't fit to be starters in the NHL, all because they've had their share of rough outings? You do know that a goalie, no matter how good he is, is going to have his share of stinkers over the course of a year. ESPECIALLY when they play behind a horrible defense. Yet, Parks was crucified whenever he'd have a bad game, even if he'd earned a game star the previous five games. He was run out of town because he wasn't perfect each and every game. And now that he's in an environment where he's allowed to have a bad game once in a while without being blamed for the loss, he's thriving. Finally, you're comparing Parks' performance from last season to Beskorowany's performance this season. That's apples and oranges, considering the teams they play behind. You saw how bad that team was last year. This year's squad is playing much better, and with all the off-season acquisitions, should be much better than last year's. Besko's been outstanding, don't get me wrong. But he's also been hung out to dry much, much less this year than Parks was last year. Besko's not having to steal every single game for this team. Last year, we didn't win if Parks wasn't first star. |
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