A quick Vees update...

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tylerking	A quick Vees update...	Lead	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 421 (10/25/09 09:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Just for everyone who told me I was a fool for having confidence in the Vees last year and that their championship run was a fluke... They're 15-0-0 so far this year. And Brock Higgs, whom all my haters were convinced just could never compete at a high level, is kicking multiple kinds of keister (8-15-23). So great to have a winner in this great city, isn't it?
Smolenak		#1	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 208 (10/25/09 10:29) Season Ticket Holder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't know why anyone would think you're a fool? The Vees were regularly a playoff team in their old division, and now they play in a weaker division and are dominating. I think it's crazy not to be impressed by the Vees, however, let's put it into perspective a little bit.
MisterDB		#2	[-]
Moderator Season Ticket Holder Posts: 3053 (10/26/09 06:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The Vees appear to have more depth this year then last thanks to the Fronts additions and player pickups by the Vees. Though the Central division looks similar to the OHL East vs West situation this year, the Vees would still have a fantastic record. Now for the controversy over in the Central division. apparently the St Mikes Buzzers charged their players a good chunk of change against OHA rules to play for them. The whole story is slowing coming out and probably an investigation will be done by the OHA to see what if any violations took place. Here are the two OHJAHL fan forums where all the gory details may be had In the Cage With Tigerpaws, central forum http://www.network54.com/Forum/243529/ The St Mikes thread http://www.network54.com/Forum/243529/thread/1256187309/last-1256554297/Response+from+St.+Mike%27s The other OPJAHL forum with the Vees, an excellant one by the way, http://www.network54.com/Forum/441519/ The St. Mike thread there http://www.network54.com/Forum/441519/thread/1256216986/last-1256554948/ST.Mike%27s+%27Statement%27 It's hockey time - Keep your head up .
tylerking		#3	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 421 (10/26/09 07:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't think even a weak division can explain away a 15-0-0 record. Heck, we're giving the Fronts a boatload of credit for hovering around .500 in a weak conference.
Gman0959		#4	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 268 (10/26/09 12:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Freudian slip about being a fool or are you just an out and out troll? Some pretty outrageous claims. Can you provide links anyone on this board said the Vee's success was a fluke and you demonstrated overwhelming confidence in them prior to them winning anything. "All my haters" ROTFLMAO! The OPJHL is a long, long way from the OHL and he is 10th in league scoring. As everyone asked and you ....where does Higgs fit with the Frontenacs? Even he knew the answer to that question.
tylerking		#5	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 421 (10/26/09 12:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Threads in the pre-season wherein I continually referenced the Vees as a model organization? And that continued throughout last year. I will say it started with their overtime win in their home opener last season, and since that counts as "winning anything" I'll gladly admit my faith in them as an exemplar didn't come until after that... but I also didn't claim anything else. And since the OJAHL (no, I won't fault you for getting the name wrong when even they can't decide on one) is becoming a great feeder league for the NCAA I don't think the stretch is as massive as you're making it out to be. But either way that's such a cop-out to say that because the leagues are of different quality, there's no comparison. The Fronts have a huge advantage in the talent they can attract, yet their organization has nothing close to the reputation that the Vees took only three years to garner. And you seriously think Higgs left because he didn't see a place for him? I'm beating a dead horse here, but it was the Frontenacs constantly reminding us that they were putting their efforts towards bringing him in, and it was clear to most that he was just in the camp for the experience, hence his adherence to the time limit for his eligibility. By the way, the T is superfluous... it's ROFLMAO these days.
Smolenak		#6	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 208 (10/27/09 01:49) Season Ticket Holder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	tylerking wrote: I don't think even a weak division can explain away a 15-0-0 record. Heck, we're giving the Fronts a boatload of credit for hovering around .500 in a weak conference. As I said, it's crazy not to be impressed by the record. But people need to put it into perspective, is it the team or is it the league? I'd say a little bit of both, but one thing is for certain. The Vees would not be 15-0 in the mega conference (it's hard to keep up with the all names). I personally don't think the Vees are a model organization. I know quite a few of the players, and a lot have had negative things to say about Robinson, and some even refusing to play for him. They may be winners, but that doesn't make them a defacto "model organization". Gman - do you honestly think Higgs couldn't help out the Frontenacs? I'm sure they would find a spot for him, they found Fine a spot. Higgs wanted to go to D1. Who knows maybe he'll change his mind. If I was him, I'd take the Fronts over Canisius but that's me. But I think it's idiotic to say he wasn't good enough to play.
Gman0959		#7	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 268 (10/28/09 12:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The whole classification of junior hockey in the OHA is a mess. Why is the GOJHL classified as Jr B? There are way...way too many teams in the OPJAHL and CCJHL. The Vee's are and should be stronger because they have of a large isolated talent pool. They also have the Frontenacs, Queens and St Lawrence attracting and contibuting to that talent pool. The Vee's are finally capitalizing on this. In the past player selection was as much about who's kid you were. Smolenak - Don't get me wrong he would make the Fronts a better team. Michael Fine is a different story. He's a proven OHL player and his aquisition was after the Mignardi trade. I think the Higgs camp has a better idea of Brocks capabilities than the rest of us. Why they are playing it safe I do not know. If the problem is with the Fronts then ask for a trade. I am making an educated assumption here but I think they (remember the "WE") were looking for a commitment from the Fronts which is absurd.....and if they did, he would start the season on the 4th line. I think the reason he took the Canisius offer is he has a guarantee. Lowly Canisius is in that position they would do that. One of the reasons Werek ended up with the Fronts is because a premier school like Boston College would not guarantee him a spot as a freshman. To put this all into context, as well as he is doing, Brock Higgs is only 10th in league scoring but then again the rest of the players above him are older. If he stayed in the league until he was 20 you could only imagine how well he'd do. He is on track for an 80 point season. Very good but not exceptional. To say T2 is close to major A is wrong or because you score alot in T2 you would do well in Major A is wrong. I followed the CJHL closely for 20 years and before that I played in it. I saw many guys who racked up 100, 120, 140 points a season and could not even make a Major A team.
wayjoy		#8	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 155 (10/28/09 01:28) Season Ticket Holder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Brock Higgs brings a lot to the table of the Vees. I have watched him a lot over these last 2 years. I can tell you one thing, he is the best two-way player the Vees have right now. And that includes all of the '89 - born guys in their lineup. And the Fronts could use a few more like him. Can he play at this level? I think so. And I know a lot of pretty well respected Fronts' people thought so too since they actively pursued his services last year. While points put up may impress a lot of people, you have to see this guy play to appreciate him. He is a lot more than simply putting up points. If you do not think so, ask Michael Farrell who played with him all last year. But I am one who believes his future is the NCAA route. He's bright and an astute hockey pupil to boot. I think he would be wise not to lose his NCAA eligibility by submitting to the lure of an OHL career. I think I am pretty sure that is why he has chosen the NCAA route. He has seen too many guys come back to tier two on his own team who lost their eligibility simply because they wanted to play major junior. BTW, check out the forum By The Fans For The Fans that MisterDB was so kind to post on this thread. It has much to do with both the Vees and the league they play in. I can tell you the elite teams this year in their league are Georgetown, and Oakville. The Vees are right there with them, in a league called the Ontario Junior A Hockey League. This league has a limit of 9 twenty year olds and the Vees are at that limit this year. And over in the other league (Central Canadian Hockey league), where the restrictions on the number of 20 year olds is five, Markham, Wellington and Newmarket are top dogs there. No question about it, the Vees are in the top six teams of a total of 21 (CCHL) and 15 (OPJAHL) in both leagues. Could they beat the Fronts? Nope. This level is a totally different kettle of fish. Stay tuned.
Jim		#9	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 138 (10/28/09 02:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	So happy Brock is doing well and would loved to have seen him in a Fronts jersey but in all honesty he was not as strong as Sarault or Froats and they have seen more than 1 healthy scratch this young season and when in the lineup they are on the 3rd and 4th lines. I think the best move for the Fronts is to have Higgs but the best thing for Higgs is to stay a star for the Vees and take his NCAA scholarship.
Gman0959		#10	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 268 (10/28/09 03:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	WJ and Jim excellent posts.
tylerking		#11	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 421 (10/28/09 05:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	They're now ranked #1 in the country, so obviously there's a growing consensus that it's not just the division. Smolenak, I've also heard negative things about Robinson, and about players that wouldn't play for him. To that I always say good - because the ones who will play for him are pretty damn good. Robinson's made the playoffs every year, and hasn't missed the conference final in what, three years? I've got to say... I don't know how you can be this successful and not be a model organization. If I had to choose between the Fronts model and the Vees model I don't think there's any debate.
Gman0959		#12	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 268 (10/28/09 10:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That last paragraph, are you handicapping that because one is fulltime with professional employees and the other is a partime amateur one because if you aren't then that is about the dopiest thing ever posted here.
chuckie2		#13	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 352 (10/28/09 10:55) Season Ticket Holder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Gman, if I could stick my nose into this private vendetta you have against Kinger...what makes them comparable is that one is a full-time model being run by amateurs, the other is a part-time model being run professionally.
Smolenak		#14	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 208 (10/29/09 12:26) Season Ticket Holder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	tylerking wrote: They're now ranked #1 in the country, so obviously there's a growing consensus that it's not just the division. Smolenak, I've also heard negative things about Robinson, and about players that wouldn't play for him. To that I always say good - because the ones who will play for him are pretty damn good. Robinson's made the playoffs every year, and hasn't missed the conference final in what, three years? I've got to say... I don't know how you can be this successful and not be a model organization. If I had to choose between the Fronts model and the Vees model I don't think there's any debate. I don't disagree that it isn't JUST the division. I believe it plays a role but obviously with them being ranked #1, this is clearly a good hockey club. No one can really refute that. I honestly hadn't thought about it the way you put it (in regards to Robinson). I know a few pretty good players that stated they didn't want or liked playing for them, but I see your point. I would say they are a model of consistency. I don't think necessarily means that they are a model organization. Many teams are continually good but do not have a clean reputation for the way they run their organization. I will agree that if I had to choose between the Fronts and the Vees for a model of consistency or even organization for that matter, I would also choose the Vees. But that isn't really saying much. Last Edited By: Smolenak 10/29/09 12:29. Edited 1 times.
tylerking		#15	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 421 (10/31/09 02:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	chuckie2 wrote: Gman, if I could stick my nose into this private vendetta you have against Kinger...what makes them comparable is that one is a full-time model being run by amateurs, the other is a part-time model being run professionally. What he said.
tylerking		#16	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 421 (10/31/09 02:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Smolenak wrote: tylerking wrote: They're now ranked #1 in the country, so obviously there's a growing consensus that it's not just the division. Smolenak, I've also heard negative things about Robinson, and about players that wouldn't play for him. To that I always say good - because the ones who will play for him are pretty damn good. Robinson's made the playoffs every year, and hasn't missed the conference final in what, three years? I've got to say... I don't know how you can be this successful and not be a model organization. If I had to choose between the Fronts model and the Vees model I don't think there's any debate. I don't disagree that it isn't JUST the division. I believe it plays a role but obviously with them being ranked #1, this is clearly a good hockey club. No one can really refute that. I honestly hadn't thought about it the way you put it (in regards to Robinson). I know a few pretty good players that stated they didn't want or liked playing for them, but I see your point. I would say they are a model of consistency. I don't think necessarily means that they are a model organization. Many teams are continually good but do not have a clean reputation for the way they run their organization. I will agree that if I had to choose between the Fronts and the Vees for a model of consistency or even organization for that matter, I would also choose the Vees. But that isn't really saying much. I'll gladly say that's a fair way of looking at things, even though I might disagree with you. I think it comes down to personal preference and Robinson just happens to be my kind of coach, but I wouldn't purport to thrust that preference out as gospel. To me, if he strove primarily to make every potential player happy, I think the Vees would lose their edge. But that's an untestable hypothesis since he is who he is, so again I won't say that's undeniable fact. But I'd just keep going back to my point in the original post; perhaps they're not perfect (then again no franchise is), but it is great to have a real winner in Kingston, because it's a city that surely deserves one.
wayjoy		#17	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 155 (11/02/09 04:25) Season Ticket Holder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"....but it is great to have a real winner in Kingston, because it's a city that surely deserves one." Amen to that Tyler. And credit where credit is due to the one man who has made it happen with his pocketbook. He has done it because he cares about junior hockey and the hockey fans of it in this wonderful city...Gregg Rosen. The Vees are at 17 games and counting. For the record, the 2002/2003 Wellington Dukes who went 47-1-1 that year and had a string of 26 without a loss that year. The Vees have a long way to go to break that record. But the record should give the Whig media something to run with in the coming months. Eric Hoffer: Famous Quotes About Success We are told that talent creates its own opportunities. But it sometimes seems that intense desire creates not only its own opportunities, but its own talents.
tylerking		#18	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 421 (11/02/09 08:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Post of the year, right there. And not just because it says amen to me. I just thank goodness for people like Rosen and other owners I'm running into - like Howard Dolgon here in Syracuse - who stand as models of how to run a successful franchise. It really helps one keep the faith in the sport one loves.
Gman0959		#19	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 268 (11/03/09 11:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If I could wish for an owner of the Fronts I'd take Gregg Rosen anyday and I've told him that, because you know he wouldn't stand for a losing team. But lets keep this in perspective, there is a huge difference running a T2 franchise and running a CHL one.
tylerking		#20	[-]
Season Ticket Holder Posts: 421 (11/03/09 07:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't think Springer is happy with a losing team. I think he genuinely wants to win. He just won't take the steps that would lead to it.

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